Sebring April 14th & 15th wrap up

[pdisme]

So this weekend was a complete waste financially, but had some highlights none the less. It was a disaster because between the two days track fees, two days instructor fees since I'm a novice, gas to and from Sebring, consumables for the Radical, hotel, etc. I figure my weekend cost me about $1200. How much quality (quality being the operative word) track time did I get? One hour. :banghead: I had some work stuff come up that didn't get me out of Tampa until very late Friday, I get to Sebring about 2:30 AM Satuday. Check in, sleep for four hours and then have to get up and get ready for the day. Because I chose to sleep as long as reasonably possible, I didn't have the car ready for the novice session that morning since it occurs right after the mandatory drivers meeting, and of course no breakfast either. The rest of the day I had about three more sessions available but two was enough, I was driving absolutely horribly in just about every way; best lap of the day was 3:05 which is quite poor for my car, even for someone who's only had three days in it.

Today on the other hand, I slept, ate breakfast, got there early for a couple warm-up laps and was focused. First session of the day I drive for about 45 minutes and then had to come in for rain after running a 2:48 lap. So just getting enough sleep gave me a 17 second improvement and that was right at the end when I was finally starting to settle in. Solo session at that point is on hold, we go to lunch and it continues to rain, come back and it rains a little more, finally it stops. They clear enough water off the track to let a novice group run about 30 minutes later, so we're at about 1:45 pm at this point. Water is still flying up as the cars go by so no way I'd be going out there on slicks, but probably wouldn't have risked it by going out on my rain tires even if I had brought them; it was a slow and messy track only suitable for street tires, if that. Jrfootin and I both call it a day at that point and pack up since the forecast was no good and clouds were still heavy with more rain starting to fall. As I should have expected, about 3:15 PM after I'd been on the road for 35 minutes, sun is bright and strong and the sky is clear. If I had stayed I'm sure the track would have been dry enough to run by 4 PM and I could have gotten another hour. That really disappointed me because I was driving well today and probably could have knocked another ten seconds off my times as I became more comfortable with the car.

So some of the highlights of the disappointing weekend:


Got to see my first Noble in person today, it ran off the track too, fortunately no damage.
Got to see my first Ariel Atom in person, although I'm glad I bought a Radical; the Atom was brand new and EVERY session it went out for, including one where it didn't even get out of the pits, ended with it being towed back in.
Minch00 came down to help with the car and see some of the other cars there; I think he got a ride in a few different ones including a Ferrari.
I learned the track charges $1/gallon more for race gas than I paid in Tampa, making me feel good about saving a few dollars. :)
On the even experienced people do dumb things front, a Porsche driver in the advanced solo group went out on track WITHOUT LUG NUTS on his right front wheel. Well, the first turn made that error quite obvious; fortunately the only damage was actually the rotor, a very close call for him.
JRFootin blazed through a sub-2:20 lap solo on Sunday in his Radical 1300 with traffic, so it's good to know I have a car that can grow quite a bit with me


I have some video that I'll try to post tomorrow; left the memory card in the trailer. I don't think I'm going to have the data overlay again this time, I kept forgetting to start the device.

[Shuey2k]

Glad to hear you both had a good time - I will make it out next time I promise. I know it sounds crazy but once you get heat in those slick running on a damp track is not only possible but fun. Did you try out any of the lines that we discussed? Did they help?

[pdisme]

This track was not damp; they were handing out snorkels at pit out. :lol2: Honestly, they were running the tow truck up and down the main straight and waves of water were flying over the wall into the pits.

I had just started to take some of the new lines this morning when things got cut short. I was picking up a lot of speed through bishop's bend, where I used to brake before heading into 15, I was going in faster and just giving it a tap to set the car up before cutting hard and I could tell there was so much more there if I would take it. The rain was a real killer for me because Chris was going to drive me around the track slow on the parade lap on the Radical line and then he was going to take me out in my car and alternate with me during the last session; would have been fantastic experience.

[Minch00]

I really enjoyed heading down there. It was worth the boring drive, simply because I got to see a few fantastic cars and got to do 150+ in a Ferrari 575 on the back straight. I also got to help change the brake lights on a Radical, way better story for the "So what did you do today" time at work than any of the other guys. So thanks to Dave and my new friend Greg I had one of the best days ever, period. I'll definetly have to take the Magnum around next time, but only on the "Parade Lap" :D


Oh yeah, I'm totally buying the $8 sandwhiches next time!

[zzzzdoc]

Sounds like it would have been a great time, Dave, if not for the weather. Not happy hearing about all the cars going off. On the other hand, it was in a monsoon.

150+ in the 575. I would think I could do better than that in the Murci.

How do you get lap times if you don't have telemetry in your car. Is the answer that you don't?

Is it easy to get gas at the track?

Nice lap time, JRFootin!!!

[pdisme]

Sounds like it would have been a great time, Dave, if not for the weather. Not happy hearing about all the cars going off. On the other hand, it was in a monsoon.

150+ in the 575. I would think I could do better than that in the Murci.

How do you get lap times if you don't have telemetry in your car. Is the answer that you don't?

Is it easy to get gas at the track?

Nice lap time, JRFootin!!!

Actually very few people went off, the Noble and maybe two others all day. The people who went out when it was wet really weren't accomplishing anything other than wasting gas because you could not drive the correct line due to standing water in some places and you had to drive so slow it was not teaching you anything.

When you're running the Sebring full course, which most of the time you are, the gas station is right next to the pits. The Murci will most likely go through about two full tanks for a track day, so I'd recommend getting gas right before the track because even regular 93 octane will cost you $4+ at the track.

I got my lap times from my Stack system; there was a transponder set up at the finish line on the main straight so the steering wheel would flash my lap time each time I crossed it and tell me how off or ahead of my best time I was as I was going around the track.

[zzzzdoc]

Yeah, I was just thinking that it doesn't matter how I drive, I won't know if my times are improving.

Not really interested in proving any points while I'm there. Just to see what my baby can do.

[pdisme]

Hmm, I can't find any automated lap timers for less than $300. You could go with a manual one for about $30 if you have a cooperative instructor, or hand it to someone on pit row if they agree to time a few of your laps; I'm sure someone would be willing to help with that. I'd do it but we'll be in the same run group and on the track at the same time.

[zzzzdoc]

Hmm, I can't find any automated lap timers for less than $300. You could go with a manual one for about $30 if you have a cooperative instructor, or hand it to someone on pit row if they agree to time a few of your laps; I'm sure someone would be willing to help with that. I'd do it but we'll be in the same run group and on the track at the same time.
When I pass you, I can count...One Mississippi, two Mississippi...:wave:

[pdisme]

:lol2: We will have to see about that since I'll have three more track days before then. :)

[zzzzdoc]

What kind of top speed can the Radical get on the two straights at Sebring?

[pdisme]

145 with stock gearing; two optional taller gear sets will take you to 153 or 161 but I run stock.

[zzzzdoc]

145 with stock gearing; two optional taller gear sets will take you to 153 or 161 but I run stock.
I would think that shorter gears would provide better lap times there.

[pdisme]

Shorter gears are better there if you're a novice or intermediate driver; I could probably pick up a few seconds just from changing to shorter and having more acceleration, but good drivers will never go below 3rd in corners other than the hair pin so they're carrying enough speed that the extra 7 to 16 mph on the straights is big.

[zzzzdoc]

Hard to keep the revs up to accelerate well taking that approach. I would think you would spend a lot of time under the power band.

[pdisme]

If your speed is up, your revs are already up. :) Another pro driver told J to consider going up two ratios instead of just one.

[zzzzdoc]

Yeah, if you're braking late and not scrubbing too much speed. Sometimes easier said than done.

[pdisme]

Right, that's why shorter gears for me would help, taller gears for good drivers.

[Minch00]

150+ in the 575. I would think I could do better than that in the Murci.



I'm willing to verify that. Gotta keep your eyes on the road and such. :D

[pdisme]

I'm willing to verify that. Gotta keep your eyes on the road and such. :D

That's actually pretty impressive with two people in the car; you have to come out of turn 16 with a lot of speed to touch 150+ on the back straight, or be driving a very powerful car, but generally if you aren't coming out of 16 fast then you're not going to be at a level where you'd feel comfortable at 150+ either so it's unlikely you'd see it unless you know what you're doing or you're incredibly dangerous. :)

I never got over 118 in the Gallardo when I took it out there my first two days on the track; I was always slow out of 16 since that's a bad turn to wreck in due to the wall, but I wasn't nailing the throttle either, the long straight was my best opportunity to talk to the instructor about where I had issues before starting the next lap.

[pdisme]

Son of a bitch; a friend just told me the track was bone dry by 3:30 pm, so I threw away 90 minutes of driving time. :banghead:

[Matt]

when are we gonna see the trailer!?

[Shuey2k]

I have hit 155 coming into the braking zone at the safety pin (in the CS) and I know first hand that an Enzo can hit 180 on the back straight.

[jrfootin]

I had a great time @ Sebring in my Radical!

Chris Hall the professional instructor I hired showed me the best lines.

My best lap time was 2:19.4 in traffic. Chris says the best lap times in my car even if he was driving would only be about 1 second better so I felt pretty good.

Chris says I ready for a 1500 or an SR8.

He said I was one of the best students he has ever had!

Greg, we need to help Dave with his driving. Not only did I pass him like he was standing still, I lapped him about 4 laps later! Sorry Dave!

[Minch00]

when are we gonna see the trailer!?

The trailer looks sweet. It would certainly catch my attention if I wasn't involved.

[Shuey2k]

I had a great time @ Sebring in my Radical!

Chris Hall the professional instructor I hired showed me the best lines.

My best lap time was 2:19.4 in traffic. Chris says the best lap times in my car even if he was driving would only be about 1 second better so I felt pretty good.

Chris says I ready for a 1500 or an SR8.

He said I was one of the best students he has ever had!

Greg, we need to help Dave with his driving. Not only did I pass him like he was standing still, I lapped him about 4 laps later! Sorry Dave!


I know, I hopefully will make it out to the next event. Jamie, we need to talk about do the Enduros sharing a car. I could run the first stint and you could take over half way through. That would give you some race experience without the chaos of the first corner. Try to come out to Cars and Coffee this Sat so we can talk. Glad to hear of your experience with Chris, he is a great guy and very good at his craft. Usually 2-3 secs faster than everyone else.

[pdisme]

You guys crack me up; you're comparing me to Lewis Hamilton making the podium in his first three pro races, only he's been driving since he was 8 and I have about 11 hours experience now, five of those in the Radical. :lol2: :lol2:

[Shuey2k]

Honestly karting would help you a lot. You just don't know the limits yet and a kart will help you deal with pushing the car. It could be worse, you could like others I know wad up you car on the first outing. The key to being fast is pushing yourself just beyond where you are comfortable. If you don't toss the car into the wall you will be overcome with joy. So, put your party hat on and get your ass out there.

[pdisme]

Well when we going karting? :grinning-smiley-003 I actually really want to go because I want to practice different aspects of oversteer and I'm not going to intentionally do a power-off slide in the Radical at the track. :) I need to find a big skid pad around town, wet it down and get the Radical sliding around.

[zzzzdoc]

The formula school I went to was great for that in the skid car. Really good to spend an hour in one. Really helped me fine tune handling cars with vast oversteer and understeer. Every time I hit a cone it cost me a beer. After a few minutes, I stopped needing to buy.

[Matt]

Honestly karting would help you a lot. You just don't know the limits yet and a kart will help you deal with pushing the car.

Thats some great advice actually. Dave any time you want to go throw some karts around let me know, i'm always down for that.

[pdisme]

Where to go though? Unless Greg's going down to Palmetto I don't know of anywhere around here where you can actually drive them, other than the lame Malibu Grand Prix fixed course and no run off crap.

[Shuey2k]

Where to go though? Unless Greg's going down to Palmetto I don't know of anywhere around here where you can actually drive them, other than the lame Malibu Grand Prix fixed course and no run off crap.

Tampa Bay Grand Prix on US 19 south. They are electric carts and while not as fast as real carts they are much quicker than Mailbu.

[pdisme]

Do they behave like real carts? Or cars for that matter. That's really more important than the speed aspect.

[jrfootin]

I will try to make cars & coffee.

I'm very interested in your offer to share the enduro!

[pdisme]

Check out Jrfootin digging that splitter into the ground on turn 12. :)

http://www.talklambo.com/pics/data/509/medium/144557459-O.jpg

http://www.talklambo.com/pics/data/509/medium/144556880-O.jpg

http://www.talklambo.com/pics/data/509/medium/144556289-O.jpg

[Shuey2k]

Do they behave like real carts? Or cars for that matter. That's really more important than the speed aspect.

In the sense that you can over drive them slide all over and you will be slow.

[zzzzdoc]

In the sense that you can over drive them slide all over and you will be slow.

I tried them a few months ago. Kind of fun. What sucked for me was that being a Clydesdale, my weight, being significantly more than these 130lb soaking wet kids, the car's HP didn't make up for that. They would pull away from me on the straights when I had it floored. That sucked.

[zzzzdoc]

We should get together at Tampa Grand Prix one weekend. I'll bring the kids too. If we drove up in the Lambos, it would really make a lot of kids days. Plus, we could have fun on the track. Sebring it isn't, but still.

[pdisme]

I think that would be great, Greg's son drives karts and I want to get some practice intentionally sliding around and recovering, Matt said he's in too. Are they open both days?

[zzzzdoc]

Mon-Thurs:11:00am - 10:00pm
Friday: 11:00am - 11:00pm
Saturday: 10:00am - 12:00am
Sunday: 11:00am - 8:00pm

http://www.tampabaygp.com/

[pdisme]

Wow, those are excellent hours, does it get crowded?

[zzzzdoc]

Only been there once, but no it wasn't. Had to wait, maybe a half hour to get on the track.

[Minch00]

If this happens on a Sunday I'm totally there.

[pdisme]

Found a pic with both of our Radicals from this weekend:

http://www.talklambo.com/pics/data/509/medium/144950421-O.jpg

[jrfootin]

Here is a better pciture!