Heel toe video

[pdisme]

Here's an excellent video of some heel-toe, it's from a Radical SR3, you can see the top of the accelerator depress even though the driver's foot is on the brake.

http://www.brom.me.uk/pix/mv_feet.mpeg

I haven't had a 6-speed on the track before so I don't know how to do this but need to learn. Some questions for those that are 'in the know'; is this hard braking while still doing this technique or do you start to brake a little earlier in order to have an easier time keeping the revs up since I would think if you were fully on the brake it would be much more difficult to keep part of your foot on the accelerator? Any tips on how to learn this? Are people that are really good at it actually controlling the specific rpm's or are they pretty much just blipping the throttle because any higher rev is better than letting it fall to idle?

[pdisme]

Just got a new video of heel/toe in a Radical from jrfootin:

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetevovideos/208202/radical_feet.html

[Tofu]

that second one is absolutely sick, I love it.

I had a miserable attempt in the company Fiat on a "spirited" drive to work one day but I almost parked it in the back of a transfer truck so I gave up until someone could teach me properly on the track.

[pdisme]

The thing I've noticed most about both of those videos is that the drivers are barely hitting the clutch on the downshift. Now I know you can do that in a sequential dog engagement transmission, but do you want to do that? Are they driving in the best way for speed without regard to the life of the transmission or is what they're doing all that's actually necessary? I've been fully engaging the clutch on downshifts, but my downshifts are much slower.

[Tofu]

One would have to assume it will shorten the life of the transmission doing it that way.

But I have no technical knowledge of sequential trannys.(or any type of trannys for you sickos out there)

[pdisme]

I think the idea here is you give it just enough clutch pedal to let the clutch actually slip intentionally so you can safely change gears; if you give it enough clutch to slip, then the tranny is protected, but what does more damage to the clutch, the slipping or a full engagement?

[tomf-1]

before i try to perfect this masterful technique, i think i will learn how to replace a clutch on my own first......lol

[pdisme]

I wonder if any rental car places rent manuals anymore? :)

[zzzzdoc]

I checked in Vegas. You could rent a Lotus Elise. Of course, for what it costs, trash your own clutch and replace it. Cheaper.

No question my concentrating on heel-toe really distracted from my driving on the Formula 2000s. Paddle shifting would have cut a ton of time off my laps, as I could spend more mental energy driving. Plus, no missed shifts.

[pdisme]

Yeah, they say don't waste your time practicing heel toe on the track, you'll do more harm than good to your time and clutch. I don't have a 6-speed car to practice with though. :(

[zzzzdoc]

It has me convinced, thought, that if I buy a track car, I'm getting one with paddle shifting. Unfortunately, that severely limits my choices.

[pdisme]

Hmm, if you want paddle-like shifting for the track car, you could do the BMW SMG system on an M3, but now you're spending a lot for a street car that would still need to be converted for more aggressive track use, so you'd probably spend $60k before all is said and done; not sure what price you were trying to stay under, obviously that would be a sweet car for the street and track. :)

[zzzzdoc]

Yeah, hoping to not hit that range. Can other cars be retrofit with SMG that weren't originally built with it?

[pdisme]

Unfortunately not, it's a whole new sequential transmission so you'd have to replace the whole tranny.

I can't think of any good paddle shift system on a car at a lower price point; even Radical's paddle system sucks from what I've heard.

How about a used one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-BMW-M3-COUPE-SMG-19-INCH-WHEELS-FLORIDA-CAR_W0QQitemZ300105016933QQihZ020QQcategoryZ6131QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Here's a 2003 M3 with SMG, 69k miles, $27k in Orlando:

http://photos.ebizautos.com/5470/1373242_6.jpg

Mileage sounds high but not really, those are strong cars and you'd be having some work done to prep it for the track anyway, so maybe you come out around $37k out of pocket for a bad ass track M3. The seats are a whole world of ugly but you could have a cage and racing seat put in anyway. M3 is a popular track car.

[zzzzdoc]

Hmmmmm......

[pdisme]

There are already five M3's registered for Chin on the day you'll be there, maybe you could check some of them out or get a ride and see what you think. Three of them are solo drivers and one is an instructor.

[jrfootin]

I just looked at the line up for the Chin event next weekend. There are a lot of Radical's that are going to be there!

Chirs Hal lis going to get there early and rope off the center 3 stalls were I was parked last time so we all can be together this time.

I also convinced Chris & Mark Hicks to get together, now Radical will be @ every Chin event offering Radicals for sale & test rides, etc.....

This picture is of me @ Miami/Homestead!

[zzzzdoc]

There are already five M3's registered for Chin on the day you'll be there, maybe you could check some of them out or get a ride and see what you think. Three of them are solo drivers and one is an instructor.
Thanks. Great idea. Pity I won't be able to trade them rides (I would for the instructor, I guess.)

Not that I want to go without an instructor the first time on the track at Sebring, but will my getting my SCCA Regional Competition License affect my status with Chin (Novice vs. Solo, etc.)?

[pdisme]

Any solo driver or instructor driver can give a novice or guest a ride.

If you haven't driven with Chin before, you can ask to get solo checked on your first day provided you convince them you have experience to warrant it; if they are okay with what you tell them, then a master instructor will take you out in the first session and see how you drive, if it's good, they'll give you provisional solo for the rest of the day and they'll watch you. If you do well all day then you will be given solo status. Not sure if provisional solos can give rides though.

[zzzzdoc]

Just wondering. Still have total desire to have an instructor the first day on the track.

At what point are they going to let you loose as a solo? I would think you would be past that point in their eyes.

Still want a ride in the Radical on the track.

And we need to give each other rides in the Murci and G next C & C, anyway.

[pdisme]

If I had been able to complete the remaining 2.5 hours of time on that Sunday two weeks ago instead of being rained out, I was thinking about asking them to check me out next time, but I don't think I'm ready yet at this point. I drove really poorly that Saturday after not getting any sleep so I've really only driven well in the Radical for about one hour at Chin events.

[zzzzdoc]

Well, as always, better safe than sorry. I figure, I'll drive so conservatively, no one will worry much about me. Not to say I won't nail it on the straights, though.

[pdisme]

That was definitely fun in the Gallardo; I drove as slow as I wanted around the parts with higher probability of error and then opened it up on the straights. :) I don't think I ever got over 125 though since I was coming out of corners slow and braking early.

[jrfootin]

I wlll be happy to give anyone a ride in my Radical next weekend @ Chin.

I'm in the advanced solo group. What's good about running in that group is they are all experienced drivers who give you the point to pass when you are about 50 yards still behind them so you don't have to slow down and wait for a signal to pass. And, you can pass in the corners.

Just let me know ZZZZdoc; I'll take you for a ride; just have to promise me you won't puke in my car.

[pdisme]

Just let me know ZZZZdoc; I'll take you for a ride; just have to promise me you won't puke in my car.

:icon_oak:

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

[zzzzdoc]

I wlll be happy to give anyone a ride in my Radical next weekend @ Chin.

I'm in the advanced solo group. What's good about running in that group is they are all experienced drivers who give you the point to pass when you are about 50 yards still behind them so you don't have to slow down and wait for a signal to pass. And, you can pass in the corners.

Just let me know ZZZZdoc; I'll take you for a ride; just have to promise me you won't puke in my car.
I work in surgery every day. I see stuff that would gag a maggot.:eek::eek:

You really think a car would get me sick?????????

Seriously, thanks for the offer, Jamie. I'll take you up on it. Perhaps that week in June at Sebring? Clearly no need for me to return the favor in the Murci. Been there, done that for you.

[pdisme]

Yep, we should both be there that weekend, should be a good one, maybe I'll be solo qualified by then since I'll have three more days of driving before that one.

[zzzzdoc]

Sounds like they are real sticklers for solo qualification. A good thing, I guess, unless it's intent is to make you use instructors.

[pdisme]

You would hope so, and I freely admit I still need guidance, but I've heard drivers complain about they don't know how so and so got solo qualified...

[zzzzdoc]

You would hope so, and I freely admit I still need guidance, but I've heard drivers complain about they don't know how so and so got solo qualified...
Interesting.

Still, better safe than sorry. Lots of expensive machinery, and lives out there.

[pdisme]

Could just be drivers having bad days, I know how much poorer I drove on little sleep than the next day; too bad there's not a rest test so you can downgrade someone from the fast solo group if they haven't gotten enough sleep. :)

[jrfootin]

zzzzdoc, I did not know you worked in the hospital; sorry. Although, there is a big difference from seeing blood & guts then getting whipped around hair-pin turns. It makes you feel like a beat up rag doll. I have had many people ask me to stop due to motion sickness; that is why I made the comment.

I'll see you @ the track!!!

[zzzzdoc]

No insult taken. Pretty immune to motion sickness. You're pretty safe.

[pdisme]

I should be the one worrying, he'll be throwing up in the helmet I'm going to let him borrow. :)

[zzzzdoc]

I bought a helmet. You can keep yours squeaky clean. Only thing I'm missing now is a racing suit.

[Minch00]

It makes you feel like a beat up rag doll.


Hurray I can contribute! Yeah, I felt pretty drained after my ride in a 575 at Sebring. Though, I now completely understand the handles installed in Italian cars :D

[zzzzdoc]

Hell, my Lexus saloon has a handle in it. It's for 80 year olds with arthritis. Do we need to check your birth certificate.

[Minch00]

Hell, my Lexus saloon has a handle in it. It's for 80 year olds with arthritis. Do we need to check your birth certificate.

No arthritis here, just the inability to stay upright under my own power in a car :D

[pdisme]

Hell, my Lexus saloon has a handle in it. It's for 80 year olds with arthritis. Do we need to check your birth certificate.

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

:owned:

[jrfootin]

zzzzzdoc,

You can borrow my suit if you like. I think I will just keep my suit for all my friends that I take for a ride; as long as I'm not using it, you are more than welcome to borrow it. I will be there all weekend!

No fuck handles in a Radical, you just need to grab the frame & hold on for dear life!!!!!!!

[pdisme]

LOL, yeah when I rode with Greg I had one hand on the roll bar and the other on the frame to keep out of the way of his shifting arm.

[zzzzdoc]

zzzzzdoc,

You can borrow my suit if you like. I think I will just keep my suit for all my friends that I take for a ride; as long as I'm not using it, you are more than welcome to borrow it. I will be there all weekend!

No fuck handles in a Radical, you just need to grab the frame & hold on for dear life!!!!!!!
Thanks. I'll take you up on that. That's kind of why I bought the helmet. Instead of looking around for one, I will always have the ability to jump in someone's ride with them.